by Jan Tie
AN INTERVIEW WITH CHURCH MINISTERS’ APPRENTICE, JONATHAN CHIN
The first thing you notice about Jonathan is the force of his frenetic energy coming at you, and then it sloshes over in an intensity of volume that doesn’t seem to have a dial-down. Like many people, I was taken aback upon first meeting him by the sheer volume of enthusiasm Jonathan (from here on, Jon) seemed to pour into the mere act of living. His voice was single volume; his facial expressions and gestures were wild and exaggerated; his head was always bobbing and shaking to emphasize specific points of conversation. His personality was a big one, if one had to put it simply. For some, Jonathan’s extraversion might seem like ‘too much,’ but for the pulpit, it turned out to be an advantage.
As the 26th Christian Ministry Apprentice in a long line-up of eager CMA candidates, Jon is now 20 months into the rigorous CMA program along with fellow CMA-er, Wong Jia Jun, with the end of CMA six months away (end July). He was recently given the privilege of taking the pulpit for two parts of a section in Leviticus – Leviticus 12-15 – which was split into Part I (12:1 – 14:57) and Part II (15). The inclusion of Leviticus 15 had been an intentional preaching challenge for Jon to teach the church about sex and sin considering Jon’s personal history growing up in a pious church environment, according to his CMA Supervisor, Pastor Jerome Leng.
“Jon has grown a lot as a preacher in terms of his attitude of reading the Bible carefully and seeing what it says. Sometimes preachers have their own hobbyhorses, you know, what they like to talk about, having a particular framework. So, this – particularly Leviticus 15 where God talks about the subject of sex – this was a nuanced challenge for Jon, and he’s tried his best to focus on what matters,” said Pastor Jerome when asked to comment on Jon’s recent preaching on Leviticus.
I met Jon over a Microsoft Teams online call at 1130PM on a Monday night, the late hour a testament to the intensity of CMA schedules and was told I had until his next meeting which was scheduled at midnight. Although obviously distracted with a lot on his mind, black Dr Dre headphones slanted on his head, he was sharp and eager to share about his experience in encountering Leviticus.
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INTERVIEWER: How was your experience preaching from the book of Leviticus?
JONATHAN: [Guffaw] My first reaction when I was assigned the Leviticus passages was, Oh no. No, no, no. I still remember Word Works in November 2024, where we had a Leviticus workshop—I struggled just reading it! It felt like the text was constantly repeating itself. Even for Chapter 13 and 14, I kept thinking, WHAT am I even reading…!
INTERVIEWER: What was most challenging about preaching from Leviticus?
JONATHAN: With many Bible passages, the subject matter is immediately clear. But Leviticus? The texts sound so repetitive. If you are not a careful reader, if you just skim the text, all you might get is that there’s leprosy, there are phrases ‘deeper than the skin’ repeated over and over. On a surface reading, it seems like nothing means anything.
But here’s what I learned: a church that skims Scripture will die.
The Bible demands to be studied. Even if you just opened the Bible and read it properly, Leviticus is such an ancient book. If you ignore the historical and cultural gap, you won’t hear God’s voice. There’s meaning behind why the text mentions scarlet yarn, or why certain sacrifices require pigeons, or why particular phraseology is used, like ‘deeper than the skin.’ The Bible is in English, but its original languages matter.
Preaching Leviticus was humbling.
The real challenge is this: how do you show an Old Testament book revealing New Testament realities without simply tacking Jesus on at the end? Every preacher wrestles with that.
Then there’s the problem of modern arrogance. We live in an algorithm-driven world—everything is tailored to us. People assume God should speak on their terms, in their language, through their preferred medium.
If God speaks to us through the Israelites, through their culture, or through an age where it involved the Israelites, then theology is going to be gained from understanding the culture and therefore, being able to read the text properly. We shouldn’t limit the Bible where we think, oh, it’s not relevant; it’s not something that’s relevant to our time, it doesn’t speak to us.
Rather, the duty of the Christian is to recognize, and in a humble fear of God – be willing to recognize – if God is willing to speak to all His children from one generation to the very last one through a historical people called the Israelites, and He has chosen to offer it within the means of their culture, then it is the responsibility of that people to bridge that gap.
If you want to hear God speak, don’t just ask ChatGPT. Buy a commentary.
Be humble. Be willing to be humbled.
INTERVIEWER: So, understanding Leviticus requires acknowledging the interpretive gap—not expecting immediate relevance?
JONATHAN: Exactly. A modern-day Christian needs to recognize that the gap is a sign that they need to get to work. You will not be able to say, “God, you didn’t make it easy for me.” You will not be able to say that.
INTERVIEWER: What are some misconceptions that you’ve noticed people have about Leviticus?
JONATHAN: Take Chapter 12, for example. People were curious how I’d handle the part about women being unclean for twice as long if they gave birth to a daughter instead of a son. Pastor Jerome even joked, “Jon, everyone’s waiting for your answer on this one.” [Laughs]
And in that moment, I thought, oh dear, how do I give an answer that’s not going to get me cancelled, right? But that’s misconception no. 1: the fact that people think the Bible is aged material, that it’s cancel-worthy. We tend to believe that the modern world has progressed; we think our time is a superior time, and we relegate the ancient world to some ‘cavemen era’ and that there’s nothing we can learn from ‘cavemen’ or the ancient world.
But that’s ridiculous, because guess who quotes the Old Testament? Jesus. And Jesus is not relevant?
So probably the biggest misconception is to think that because the text covers culturally insensitive subject matter, it gives you a reason (seemingly) to not trust the material.
INTERVIEWER: Did you use any specific method or preaching style to teach from Leviticus?
Leviticus is dense. If you focus too much on bridging the cultural gap, you might miss its pastoral significance.
I think chapter 15 was a huge test for me. The ESV translates a particular Hebrew word as “body,” but the literal translation is “genitals.” I had a choice: take the academic route—mention it briefly and move on—or use it as a teaching opportunity.
Could I see this as an opportunity to warn the church, to pastorally help them think, and appreciate the need to check ourselves? Are we afraid or shy to talk about sex when the Bible is not, and if so, what does that reveal about our understanding of holiness?
I think a very helpful thing for my growth as a young Christian when I first understood the gospel was this important element of differentiating.
One text in Leviticus that has been so mind-blowing for me, and I love teaching and learning about – how valuable it is! – is Leviticus 10:10.
The fact that it says, your job as a priest is to distinguish between unclean and clean, and holy and common. That is such a powerful message that needs to be heard for the modern world today. Many Christians don’t know how to differentiate the holy from what is culturally shameful to speak about, in this case sex, simply because people think of it as ‘dirty.’
When I was a young Christian and I first learnt the gospel, what was most helpful for me was when I learned that sex is not dirty; sex is beautiful. It’s created by God. What is sinful? What is sin? It’s rebelling against God.
We need precision. If we don’t split hairs, we’ll start thinking sex itself is sinful. And when that happens, we become simplistic in our Christian life—thinking that avoiding the topic altogether is the godliest approach. But if we never talk about sex in the right way, how do we teach our children that it’s a gift from God, while also warning them against sexual immorality? You think you’re honouring God by not talking about sex, but in actual fact, you can be dishonouring God if you don’t talk about sex in order to teach your children and the church that sex is a good thing and sexual immorality is a bad thing.
It’s Leviticus 10:3, God says, “Among those who are near me I will be sanctified, and before all the people I will be glorified.” I will be treated as holy. Therefore, if I have to regard God as holy, then I need to recognize what is truly dishonouring to God. And if I don’t split hairs, I will never be clear what sin is, and I will naturally think that the person who is clean in his mouth, who doesn’t swear, has never talked about sex, is always a goody-two-shoes, is the so-called ‘Christian guy’ but true uncleanness, true dirtiness is according to God, rebellion against him.
INTERVIEWER: So we need a God-centred understanding of everything in our lives, beginning with understanding God’s definitions of every aspect of life?
JONATHAN: Exactly. But preaching isn’t just about transferring information—it’s about helping people think rightly, showing them how the text exposes their blind spots. If we don’t check ourselves, we won’t hear God speak.
INTERVIEWER: Last question. Given the sensitive topics you covered, did you face pushback?
INTERVIEWER: Oh yeah. People told me I should have framed the sermon differently, that I risked alienating newcomers. Pastor Robin also gave feedback that I should have framed the sermon better. It would have been helpful if I had said, “Today’s talk is not about sex, but for the purposes of helping you appreciate what the text is saying, I need to help you to not be allergic to sex.” That was a learning point for me—I’m responsible not just for what I say, but how I say it.
At the same time, it was a wake-up call for some people to realize that this is what we stand for in CERC. This is the kind of church that Pastor Robin started; the kind of church where we will speak the truth and if the text says it, we will say it as it is. And if it makes you uncomfortable, then thank God that God is helping us to check ourselves.
It was a very humbling moment for me, and I learnt I still needed to say what I said, I shouldn’t back down if the text says it, but then if I say it, then the responsibility is on me to say it in a way where people don’t misunderstand. If I have done my due diligence, and I’ve framed it properly and they’re still insulted, then God has spoken, and they take issue with God. But as a preacher, if I am careless in framing it, then I am to blame.
INTERVIEWER: It’s a valuable lesson.
JONATHAN: Yes
AI version
LESSONS FOR THE PREACHER-IN-TRAINING FROM LEVITICUS
AN INTERVIEW WITH CHURCH MINISTERS’ APPRENTICE (CMA), JONATHAN CHIN
[Photo of Jon Preaching to get from Photography]
The first thing you notice about Jonathan Chin is his boundless energy—unfiltered and relentless. It surges forward in animated conversation, brimming with enthusiasm, punctuated by sweeping gestures and an intensity of volume that rarely wavers. When I first met him, I was taken aback—not just by his extroversion but by the sheer force with which he seemed to embrace every moment. For some, this might come across as ‘too much,’ but when it comes to the pulpit, it’s an undeniable advantage.
As the Xth CMA in a long line of CMAs, Jon is now 20 months into the rigorous program alongside his fellow apprentice, Wong Jia Jun, with just six months left before completion. Recently, he was entrusted with a significant challenge: preaching from Leviticus, specifically chapters 11–15. His supervisor, Pastor Jerome Leng, deliberately included Leviticus 15—a passage dealing with bodily emissions—to stretch Jon in addressing topics of sex and sin, given his upbringing in a conservative church environment.
“Jon has grown tremendously as a preacher, particularly in his approach to reading Scripture carefully and allowing it to speak for itself,” Pastor Jerome remarked. “Preachers often have their hobbyhorses—topics they gravitate toward—but handling a passage like Leviticus 15 required Jon to discipline himself, to focus on what the text says rather than what he might prefer to say.”
I caught up with Jon over a late-night Microsoft Teams call—11:30 PM on a Monday, squeezed in between his packed CMA schedule. Despite the late hour, he was sharp and eager to share his reflections on tackling one of the Bible’s most challenging books.
INTERVIEW
INTERVIEWER: How did you feel when you found out you’d be preaching from Leviticus?
JONATHAN: [Laughs] My first reaction? Oh no. No, no, no. I still remember Word Works in November 2024, where we had a Leviticus workshop—I struggled just reading it! The repetition was overwhelming. Even chapters 13 and 14—I kept thinking, What am I even looking at?
INTERVIEWER: What was the biggest challenge?
JONATHAN: With many Bible passages, the subject matter is immediately clear. But Leviticus? It feels like a maze. If you just skim it, all you see is “leprosy,” “deeper than the skin,” over and over. On the surface, it seems like nothing means anything.
But here’s what I learned: a church that skims Scripture will die.
The Bible demands to be studied. Even if you read it properly, Leviticus is ancient. If you ignore the historical and cultural gap, you won’t hear God’s voice. There’s meaning behind why the text mentions scarlet yarn, or why certain sacrifices require pigeons. The Bible is in English, but its original languages matter.
Preaching Leviticus was humbling. The real challenge is this: How do you show an Old Testament book revealing New Testament realities without simply tacking Jesus on at the end? Every preacher wrestles with that.
Then there’s the problem of modern arrogance. We live in an algorithm-driven world—everything is tailored to us. People assume God should speak on their terms, in their language, through their preferred medium. But if God chose to reveal Himself through Israel’s culture, then our responsibility is to bridge that gap, not ignore it.
If you want to hear God speak, don’t just ask ChatGPT. Buy a commentary. Be humble. Be willing to be humbled.
INTERVIEWER: So, understanding Leviticus requires acknowledging the interpretive gap—not expecting immediate relevance?
JONATHAN: Exactly. A modern-day Christian needs to see that gap as a sign to get to work. You don’t get to say, “God, You didn’t make it easy for me.” That’s not an option.
INTERVIEWER: What are some common misconceptions people have about Leviticus?
JONATHAN: Take Chapter 12, for example. People were curious how I’d handle the part about women being unclean for twice as long if they gave birth to a daughter instead of a son. Pastor Jerome even joked, “Jon, everyone’s waiting for your answer on this one.” [Laughs]
That moment made me realize a big misconception: people assume the Bible is outdated and problematic. There’s this modern arrogance—thinking we’ve ‘progressed’ and that the ancient world has nothing to teach us.
But guess who quotes the Old Testament? Jesus. So if Leviticus is irrelevant, then so is He.
INTERVIEWER: Did you take a specific approach in preaching from Leviticus?
JONATHAN: Leviticus is dense. If you focus too much on bridging the cultural gap, you might miss its pastoral significance.
Leviticus 15 was a huge test for me. The ESV translates a particular Hebrew word as “body,” but the literal translation is “genitals.” I had a choice: take the academic route—mention it briefly and move on—or use it as a teaching opportunity.
The question was: Are we afraid to talk about sex when the Bible isn’t? And if so, what does that reveal about our understanding of holiness?
One of my favorite verses is Leviticus 10:10: You are to distinguish between the holy and the common, between the unclean and the clean. That’s a lost skill today. Many Christians don’t know how to differentiate between “dirty” and “sinful.”
We need precision. If we don’t split hairs, we’ll start thinking sex itself is sinful. And when that happens, we become simplistic in our Christian life—thinking that avoiding the topic altogether is the godliest approach. But if we never talk about sex in the right way, how do we teach our children that it’s a gift from God, while also warning them against sexual immorality?
God demands to be treated as holy (Leviticus 10:3). And if we don’t distinguish what is truly dishonoring to Him, we’ll misdefine sin entirely. We’ll assume holiness is just about ‘clean living’—not swearing, not talking about sex—when real holiness is about obeying God’s Word as He defines it.
INTERVIEWER: So it’s about having a God-centered lens on everything?
JONATHAN: Exactly. Preaching isn’t just about transferring information—it’s about helping people think rightly, showing them how the text exposes their blind spots. If we don’t check ourselves, we won’t hear God speak.
INTERVIEWER: Last question. Given the sensitive topics you covered, did you face pushback?
JONATHAN: Oh yeah. People told me I should have framed the sermon differently, that I risked alienating newcomers. Pastor Robin later pointed out that it would have helped if I had prefaced the sermon with, “Today’s talk isn’t about sex, but to grasp this passage, we need to address it.” That was a learning point for me—I’m responsible not just for what I say, but how I say it.
At the same time, it was a wake-up call for some. They realized: This is what we stand for in CERC. And that, to me, was worth it.
